Indice delle credenze proibite

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da mix il Dom 14 Apr - 12:35

Fux89 ha scritto:
mix ha scritto:tutte le cose di cui ignoriamo tanto non esistono?
Dov'è che l'avrei scritto?
l'ho scritto io, per analogia. in forma interrogativa.
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mix
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Griiper McCloubit il Dom 14 Apr - 14:35

Fux89 ha scritto:
loonar ha scritto:Funziona se la malattia scompare o regredisce a causa dell'inserimento di aghi. Poi se non abbiamo ancora scoperto per quale motivo è un altro paio di maniche.
L'esempio dell'acido acetilsalicilico usato dagli hopi che faceva passare la febbre e che loro attribuivano ad una magia dell'albero del salice è pregnante in questo caso.
Perfetto. Ha senso dire che gli Hopi avevano ragione riguardo alla magia dell'albero di salice?

No. Però avevano ragione ad usare la corteccia del salice visto che funzionava. Anche se per motivi a loro sconosciuti.
Come se ne esce se non studiando di più?
Non te eh, lo so che stai già dando mgreen
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Dom 14 Apr - 15:44

Griiper McCloubit ha scritto:
Fux89 ha scritto:
loonar ha scritto:Funziona se la malattia scompare o regredisce a causa dell'inserimento di aghi. Poi se non abbiamo ancora scoperto per quale motivo è un altro paio di maniche.
L'esempio dell'acido acetilsalicilico usato dagli hopi che faceva passare la febbre e che loro attribuivano ad una magia dell'albero del salice è pregnante in questo caso.
Perfetto. Ha senso dire che gli Hopi avevano ragione riguardo alla magia dell'albero di salice?

No. Però avevano ragione ad usare la corteccia del salice visto che funzionava. Anche se per motivi a loro sconosciuti.
Come se ne esce se non studiando di più?
Non te eh, lo so che stai già dando mgreen
quoto..
Se una cosa funziona, che facciamo non la usiamo se non sappiamo perchè funziona?
Per dire: se ad una tipa credere agli angeli la fa star bene psicologicamente, mentre se non crede le viene una tremenda depressione, che facciamo?
Me lo chiedo anche io. Non ho la risposta pronta.

loonar
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da massi76 il Dom 14 Apr - 17:38

Se una cosa funziona, che facciamo non la usiamo se non sappiamo perchè funziona?
Per dire: se ad una tipa credere agli angeli la fa star bene psicologicamente, mentre se non crede le viene una tremenda depressione, che facciamo?
Me lo chiedo anche io. Non ho la risposta pronta.

semplice .. si usa! perchè no? immagino che si stia parlando di casi limite, non della norma (non del quotidiano, ma della malattia) e se ben poche altre soluzioni ci sono e se ne trova una che funziona si usa. e di corsa...
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Rasputin il Dom 14 Apr - 18:14

Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.

_________________
I always have ammo in my back pocket weherever I go (Hickok45)

Vivo solo una volta, ma come vivo io, una volta basta.

Ma cosa credi, che uno si sveglia una mattina e decide di lavorare in un carcere? Quella è gente perversa! (Vanessa Lutz)

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Dom 14 Apr - 18:15

Rasputin ha scritto:Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.
questo è sottinteso.

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Rasputin il Dom 14 Apr - 18:38

loonar ha scritto:
Rasputin ha scritto:Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.
questo è sottinteso.

Prova a spiegarlo a Jessica uah uah

_________________
I always have ammo in my back pocket weherever I go (Hickok45)

Vivo solo una volta, ma come vivo io, una volta basta.

Ma cosa credi, che uno si sveglia una mattina e decide di lavorare in un carcere? Quella è gente perversa! (Vanessa Lutz)

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Dom 14 Apr - 18:51

Rasputin ha scritto:
loonar ha scritto:
Rasputin ha scritto:Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.
questo è sottinteso.

Prova a spiegarlo a Jessica uah uah
Non ci vuole tanto.
Tizio sta male, ha male alla schiena.
Fa l'agopuntura.
Il dolore alla schiena passa.

Così funziona davvero.

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da claudio285 il Dom 14 Apr - 20:35

fosse così semplice oggi avremmo il sestuplo dei farmaci
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da massi76 il Dom 14 Apr - 20:47

non ce n'è già troppi???
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Dom 14 Apr - 21:35

claudio285 ha scritto:fosse così semplice oggi avremmo il sestuplo dei farmaci
detta così non si capisce
cosa intendi?

loonar
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Dom 14 Apr - 21:51

Rasputin ha scritto:Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.
è già stato stabilito dall'organizzazione mondiale della sanità ( http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html ) e di link te ne ho già dati a sufficienza, noto invece che hai abilmente glissato sulle domande che io ho fatto a te (non chiedermi quali perchè lo sai bene e se non te le ricordi basta che ti rileggi i miei interventi). poi se la tua professione di avvocheto delle cause perse ti impedisce di essere onesto oppure sei arrivato ad un livello tale di convinzione da essere completamente scotomizzato e non riuscire a ritenere nel cervello le cose che non vuoi vedere, mi spiace ma è un problema tuo. puoi continuare a CREDERE quello che ti pare, che l'OMS abbia subito infiltrazioni dalla mafia cinese e le povere industrie del farmaco siano state a guardere inermi, che sia un pesce d'aprile rimasto per sbaglio in rete, che i dottori lavorino tutti per motagnier, che siano più vere le cose come le vorresti di quelle che gli addetti ai lavori misurano... l'importante è che si sappia come stanno le cose nel mondo vero.

giusto perchè ti piace citare cose a sproposito, ti incollo anche qualche conclusione dal documento dell'oms alla quale sono giunti:

oms ha scritto:For example, the proportion of chronic pain relieved by acupuncture is generally in the range 55–85%, which compares favourably with that of potent drugs (morphine helps in 70% of cases) and far outweighs the placebo effect (30–35%)




se vuoi qualche altro articolo posso anche farti un copia-incolla dal documento dell'oms, tanto letti 18 mila non avrai difficoltà ad arrivare a 18300 ...
di nuovo buona lettura...

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jessica
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Dom 14 Apr - 21:54

Fux89 ha scritto:
loonar ha scritto:Funziona se la malattia scompare o regredisce a causa dell'inserimento di aghi. Poi se non abbiamo ancora scoperto per quale motivo è un altro paio di maniche.
L'esempio dell'acido acetilsalicilico usato dagli hopi che faceva passare la febbre e che loro attribuivano ad una magia dell'albero del salice è pregnante in questo caso.
Perfetto. Ha senso dire che gli Hopi avevano ragione riguardo alla magia dell'albero di salice?

nono eh eh eh bambinello cattivo. non ha senso questo come non ha senso dire che l'agopuntura funzioni per sbilanciamenti energetici del qi od dello yangtzechiang...

quello che corretto dire è che la pratica hopi di mangiarsi salici per curare la febbre, se sussiste un rapporto di causa effetto, funziona. esattamente come ha senso farlo nel caso dell'agopuntura.
inoltre oggi qualcosa intorno alle cause cominciano anche a capirlo*

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v13/n7/full/nn.2562.html


*anche se il tuo amico del blog non vuole...


Ultima modifica di jessica il Dom 14 Apr - 21:59, modificato 1 volta
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Messaggio Da loonar il Dom 14 Apr - 21:55

Be' ma l'agopuntura la fanno gli anestesisti negli ambulatori dei centri anti-dolore negli ospedali. Ma da anni! Che c'è da discutere?
Rasputin non lo sapevi?

loonar
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Dom 14 Apr - 21:58

loonar ha scritto:Be' ma l'agopuntura la fanno gli anestesisti negli ambulatori dei centri anti-dolore negli ospedali. Ma da anni! Che c'è da discutere?
Rasputin non lo sapevi?

no, ma che, sono pagati e corrotti dalla yakuza


quando ti dico che lui ha il suo intoccabile mondo parallelo in cui le cose vanno come vuole lui, tu non mi credi... boh
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Rasputin il Lun 15 Apr - 8:28

jessica ha scritto:
Rasputin ha scritto:Bisogna prima stabilire che funziona davvero.
è già stato stabilito dall'organizzazione mondiale della sanità ( http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html ) e di link te ne ho già dati a sufficienza, noto invece che hai abilmente glissato sulle domande che io ho fatto a te (non chiedermi quali perchè lo sai bene e se non te le ricordi basta che ti rileggi i miei interventi). poi se la tua professione di avvocheto delle cause perse ti impedisce di essere onesto oppure sei arrivato ad un livello tale di convinzione da essere completamente scotomizzato e non riuscire a ritenere nel cervello le cose che non vuoi vedere, mi spiace ma è un problema tuo. puoi continuare a CREDERE quello che ti pare, che l'OMS abbia subito infiltrazioni dalla mafia cinese e le povere industrie del farmaco siano state a guardere inermi, che sia un pesce d'aprile rimasto per sbaglio in rete, che i dottori lavorino tutti per motagnier, che siano più vere le cose come le vorresti di quelle che gli addetti ai lavori misurano... l'importante è che si sappia come stanno le cose nel mondo vero.

giusto perchè ti piace citare cose a sproposito, ti incollo anche qualche conclusione dal documento dell'oms alla quale sono giunti:

oms ha scritto:For example, the proportion of chronic pain relieved by acupuncture is generally in the range 55–85%, which compares favourably with that of potent drugs (morphine helps in 70% of cases) and far outweighs the placebo effect (30–35%)




se vuoi qualche altro articolo posso anche farti un copia-incolla dal documento dell'oms, tanto letti 18 mila non avrai difficoltà ad arrivare a 18300 ...
di nuovo buona lettura...

Spoiler:
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287. Zou XC et al. [Comparative study of cerebral infarction with acupuncture on six acupoints of yang meridian and calan tablets.] Chinese Journal of Integrated Traditional and Western Medicine, 1990, 10(4):199–202 [in Chinese].
80
References
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288. Raustia AM et al. Acupuncture compared with stomatognathic treatment for temporomandibular joint dysfunction. Journal of Prosthetic Dentistry, 1986, 56(5):616–623.
289. Ma S et al. [Observation of combined acupuncture and moxibustion treatment of 60 cases of ulcerative colitis.] Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion, 1997, 17(5):275–276 [in Chinese].
290. Lai XS. [Therapeutic effect of acupuncture in the treatment of senile vascular dementia.] Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion, 1997, 17(4):201–202 [in Chinese].
291. Liu J et al. [Clinical study on treatment of vascular dementia by electroacupuncture of scalp acupoints.] Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion, 1998, 18(4):197–200 [in Chinese].
292. Jiang GH et al. [Controlled observation of electro-acupuncture treatment of vascular dementia.] Bulletin of Gaungzhou Traditional Chinese Medicine University, 1998, 15(2):110–112 [in Chinese].
293. Wang LQ. [A comparative study on acupuncture treatment of viral encephalitis in children.] Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion, 1998, 18(7):397–398 [in Chinese].


Magari potresti citarmi la fonte da cui hai prelevato quest'insalata di riferimenti, quati tutti nella tua lingua (Il cinese) che io purtroppo non conosco. Ho anche verificato OMG (Della cui attendibilità comincio a dubitare), che divide l'efficacia dell'agopuntura in varie categorie; l'unica che comprende sintomatologie contro le quali l'efficacia dell'agopuntura sarebbe stata (Peccato che non fornisca riferimenti) clinicamente provata è la prima della lista, che comprende i seguenti "Disagi" - reinserisco la lista già inserita da te - tra i quali invito tutti a trovare quelli non sintomatici o non somatizzabili:


Adverse reactions to radiotherapy and/or chemotherapy
Allergic rhinitis (including hay fever)
Biliary colic
Depression (including depressive neurosis and depression following stroke)
Dysentery, acute bacillary
Dysmenorrhoea, primary
Epigastralgia, acute (in peptic ulcer, acute and chronic gastritis, and gastrospasm)
Facial pain (including craniomandibular disorders)
Headache
Hypertension, essential
Hypotension, primary
Induction of labour
Knee pain
Leukopenia
Low back pain
Malposition of fetus, correction of
Morning sickness
Nausea and vomiting
Neck pain
Pain in dentistry (including dental pain and temporomandibular dysfunction)
Periarthritis of shoulder
Postoperative pain
Renal colic
Rheumatoid arthritis
Sciatica
Sprain
Stroke
Tennis elbow


Ho grassettato i più ridicolmente indefiniti/cause senza specificare.

Ne prendo uno a caso, "Low back pain": supponiamo che sia causato da un'ernia al disco, vuoi darmi a bere che gli aghetti ne rimuovono la causa oppure concordi che si tratta di una cura la quale va praticata (Nei migliori dei casi) in forma continuativa foraggiando il ciarlatano di turno?
Royales


loonar ha scritto:Be' ma l'agopuntura la fanno gli anestesisti negli ambulatori dei centri anti-dolore negli ospedali. Ma da anni! Che c'è da discutere?
Rasputin non lo sapevi?

Nullla, se non che - fino a prova contraria - almeno in tutti i casi che ho potuto verificare è un trattamento sintomatico, qusti sempre analgesico, e non curativo.

Per intenderci, può far passare il mal di denti ed i dolori al ginocchio, ma non cura gli ascessi né i menischi strappati. Ci siamo?
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Lun 15 Apr - 9:46

ahhhh... giusto... adesso comincia la fase di ritrattazione della verità.
te lo richiedo: quando hai un'ernia al disco e pigli un antidolorifico, ti fa passare l'ernia? no? allora l'antidolorifico è una bufala? un placebo?
se ti strappi un menisco e pigli il cortisone che succede? magicamente ricresce? e se hai una frattura e pigli l'aspirina ma la frattura resta, che facciamo, diciamo che quelli della bayer sono dei ciarlatani?
le anestesie per operazioni sono bufale di ciarlatani? farti aumentare i globuli bianchi? novalgina, en, tachipirina, oki (e tutto il resto di medicinali antidolorifici o antipiretici che ti avevo già scritto ma che hai con abilità glissato) sono bufale prodotte da ciarlatani? e la morfina che per certe patologie ha efficacia addirittura minore degli aghetti? dai rispondi di si, ti prego. rispondimi che esistono solo antibiotici e operazioni chirurgiche, le uniche cose che funzionano davvero, con qualche dubbio per gli antibiotici perchè i batteri non li vedi quindi non sei tanto sicuro della loro esistenza....

dai su... non ti rendi conto di essere arrivato sul fondo del ridicolo e di starti scavando a velocita warp un tunnel gelmini?

adesso, per non tornare sui tuoi passi e ammettere di aver parlato di cose delle quali non sai nulla se non per sentito dire o per "gusti" personali che ti portano a schifare ogni cosa possa vagamente sembrare legata a qualche disciplina mistico-filosofica, arrivi a dire che l'organizzazione mondiale della sanità non è attendibile...
come la volta che lo è diventata wikipedia perchè diceva cose che non ti piacevano...

poi c'è un documento ufficiale dell'oms con 300 fonti scaricabili e tu cosa arrivi a dire? peccato che non fornisca i riferimenti. PECCATO CHE NON FORNISCA I RIFERIMENTI?!? ahahahahahah quando uno non sa più da che parte voltarsi...

la mia seconda lista (ma ci sei o ci fai?) come ti ho già scritto, è presa dal documento dell'oms come ti ho già scritto nell'intervento precedente (jessica ha già scritto: se vuoi qualche altro articolo posso anche farti un copia-incolla dal documento dell'oms
Read more: http://atei.forumitalian.com/t5126p110-indice-delle-credenze-proibite#ixzz2QWUIcMMH)
ahahahahahah facile fare casino cercando di scappare alle evidenze, nevvero?
e quasi il 60% di quelle pubblicazioni è scritto in lingua inglese, ma naturalmente per te che non vuoi vedere la verità e preferisci credere al tuo mondo fantasy diventano quasi tutte scritte nella mia lingua.
inoltre l'obiezione che sono scritte in cinese quindi "non valgono" ahahahahahah è piuttosto idiota. allora per uno che non conosce l'inglese la fisica degli ultimi 30 anni non dovrebbe esistere e potrebbe continuare a CREDERE che le cose stiano come vuole lui piuttosto che come le hanno trovate essere...

visto che a mix interessavano gli studi antropologici, ecco qui un altro bel caso per lui di come funziona il cervello di certa gente (anche se più di cervello mi vien da dire che per continuare questa discussione tu stia usando il culo...)
se trova una notiziola scritta sul giornalino dell'università, su un blog di un tizio a caso, sul fuffington post, su "cose incredibili blog", o anche su wikipedia, una rivista seria, un giornale online senza referee (ma qualche volta sembrano anche prese da facebook) e la notiziola dice qualcosa che gli piace o supporta la sua visione del mondo (o capisce erroneamente che voglia dire quello) allora diventa VERITA'ASSOLUTA alla quale credere con certezza, anzi, oggettivamente verificata, verificabile, misurata.
invece, se quanto detto si discosta da come vorrebbe che fosse il mondo, allora QUALSIASI fonte (nature compreso, vedi mio ultimo intervento) diventa sospetta, inattendibile (l'OMS, wikipedia), non rilevante o falsa.

misteri della mente umana... quando il volere che le cose siano in un certo modo te le fa vedere proprio così...



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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Rasputin il Lun 15 Apr - 10:13

azz quanta grafodiarrea per confondere le idee

- mi manca la fonte di un qualche studio clinico che sostenga una qualsiasi delle 300 fonti

- se sono in cinese come fai tu a sapare che valgono? Evidentemente conosci la lingua, io no ma puoi farmi una traduzione, mi fido ahahahahahah

Quanto a questo

jessica ha scritto:ahhhh... giusto... adesso comincia la fase di ritrattazione della verità.
te lo richiedo: quando hai un'ernia al disco e pigli un antidolorifico, ti fa passare l'ernia? no? allora l'antidolorifico è una bufala? un placebo?
se ti strappi un menisco e pigli il cortisone che succede? magicamente ricresce? e se hai una frattura e pigli l'aspirina ma la frattura resta, che facciamo, diciamo che quelli della bayer sono dei ciarlatani?
le anestesie per operazioni sono bufale di ciarlatani? farti aumentare i globuli bianchi? novalgina, en, tachipirina, oki (e tutto il resto di medicinali antidolorifici o antipiretici che ti avevo già scritto ma che hai con abilità glissato) sono bufale prodotte da ciarlatani? e la morfina che per certe patologie ha efficacia addirittura minore degli aghetti? dai rispondi di si, ti prego. rispondimi che esistono solo antibiotici e operazioni chirurgiche, le uniche cose che funzionano davvero, con qualche dubbio per gli antibiotici perchè i batteri non li vedi quindi non sei tanto sicuro della loro esistenza....

vogliamo andare a vedere quanto costa un'aspirina e quanto costa un trattamento con l'agopuntura (Ambi sintomatici)?

Vogliamo trovarlo questo trattamento con agopuntura non sintomatico che faccia, che ne so, il lavoro di un antibiotico?

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Ma cosa credi, che uno si sveglia una mattina e decide di lavorare in un carcere? Quella è gente perversa! (Vanessa Lutz)

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Lun 15 Apr - 11:07

Rasputin ha scritto:azz quanta grafodiarrea per confondere le idee
ahahahahahah ahahahahahah ahahahahahah si certo. l'oms è inattendibile, wiki è pagata dai cinesi, chiedi le fonti delle fonti, glissi sui dati e io confondo le idee

- mi manca la fonte di un qualche studio clinico che sostenga una qualsiasi delle 300 fonti
ahahahahahah ahahahahahah ahahahahahah ahahahahahah questa è da guinnes. manca la fonte della fonte, non credevo potessi arrivare a tanto.

- se sono in cinese come fai tu a sapare che valgono? Evidentemente conosci la lingua, io no ma puoi farmi una traduzione, mi fido ahahahahahah
no, mi basta che siano ufficialmente riconosciuti dall'oms esattamente e pubblicati su una rivista scientifica, almeno per conoscere la posizione ufficiale della medicina a riguardo, non essendo io una neurobiologa che si occupa di quelle cose. esattamente come a te, che non sei un fisico e che se anche leggi una pubblicazione del cern sul bosone di higgs scritta in inglese ne capisci meno che se fosse scritta in cinese, basta. questo sempre a proposito del fatto che tu NON usi due pesi e due misure per giudicare ciò che ti piace e ciò che non ti piace...

vogliamo andare a vedere quanto costa un'aspirina e quanto costa un trattamento con l'agopuntura (Ambi sintomatici)?
e un'anestesia? un ciclo di ionoforesi? andare dal fisioterapista?

Vogliamo trovarlo questo trattamento con agopuntura non sintomatico che faccia, che ne so, il lavoro di un antibiotico?
e perchè? solo per farti arrivare alla tua fase 3: attribuire all'interlocutore cose che non ha detto per poi controbattervi? la lista delle malattie per le quali l'agopuntura funziona consta delle voci che ti ho già linkato. se tu poi vuoi ricorrere a questi mezzucci da baraccone sono problemi tuoi. allora facciamo così:
gli antibiotici sono una bufala perchè non esiste alcun motore di automobile in cui puoi metterli dentro e usarli come carburante.
logica impeccabile la tua...
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Rasputin il Lun 15 Apr - 12:21

jessica ha scritto:e perchè? solo per farti arrivare alla tua fase 3: attribuire all'interlocutore cose che non ha detto per poi controbattervi? la lista delle malattie dei sintomi per le i quali l'agopuntura funziona consta delle voci che ti ho già linkato. se tu poi vuoi ricorrere a questi mezzucci da baraccone sono problemi tuoi. allora facciamo così:
gli antibiotici sono una bufala perchè non esiste alcun motore di automobile in cui puoi metterli dentro e usarli come carburante.
logica impeccabile la tua...

Attendo un riferimento sulle proprietà curative dell'agopuntura.

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Vivo solo una volta, ma come vivo io, una volta basta.

Ma cosa credi, che uno si sveglia una mattina e decide di lavorare in un carcere? Quella è gente perversa! (Vanessa Lutz)

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da Lyallii il Lun 15 Apr - 12:53

Io volevo provare l agopuntura per smettere di fumare...
Mio marito dice che è una questione di forza di volontà visto che ho letto anche il libro ci carr e non ha funzionato, effettivamente quando ero incinta non fumavo e non mi mancava ma forse perche ero allegra per via degli ormoni... Bohhh...
Cmq tanti hanno smesso di fumare con l agopuntura...
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da jessica il Lun 15 Apr - 13:10

e rasputin continua con la fase di ritrattazione delle tesi....
bravo perchè non ti rimane da fare altro oltre a scavarti una buca.

tu hai plaudito all'inserimento dell'agopuntura nell' "indice delle credenze" e sostenuto che fosse una pratica da ciarlatani.
mentre OMS, FDA, NHS, nature, cochreane, lancet, più un'altra cinquanatina di riviste mediche oltre agli apparati nazionali di sanità di italia, usa, canada, germania, uk, australia, francia, austria, olanda, belgio, svezia, spagna, norvegia, ecc... riconoscono l'efficacia dell'agopuntura e prendono atto del fatto che i risultati ottenuti sono ben lontani da quelli ottenuti con semplici placebo, incoraggiando inoltre ulteriori ricerche per molte classi di malattie per le quali l'uso dell'agopuntura sembra promettente.
oltre che contrapporre quanto sostenuto da "OMS, FDA, NHS, nature, cochreane, lancet, più un'altra cinquanatina di riviste mediche oltre agli apparati nazionali di sanità di italia, usa, canada, germania, uk, australia, francia, austria, olanda, belgio, svezia, spagna, norvegia, ecc..." alle tue farlocche credenze, altro non posso fare. ovviamente sei libero di turarti occhi e orecchie e credere a quello che vuoi, per quanto mi riguarda anche che i rettiliani siano cinesi e ci governino con l'agopuntura.
pertanto, vista l'impossibilità da parte tua di prendere atto dei dati oggettivi a tua disposizione (oltre che la totale disonestà intellettuale che ti porta a glissare, saltare domande, evitare punti che ti risultano scomodi, falsificare mie affermazioni, chiedere le fonti delle fonti (questa è stata bellissima, me la segno per il futuro, per quando -con assoluta faccia di bronzo- oserai ancora linkare qualche articolo di rivista medica o pseudomedica tipo il giornalino dell'università che doveva oggettivamente dimostrare che i credenti avevano il qi più basso del mondo) tacciare di inaffidabilità wikipedia, oms, nature...) mi pare di poter concludere qui questa discussione che hai trascinato a livelli subridicoli. parlare di immacolata concezione su cattolici romani sarebbe stato di sicuro più razionale.

cari saluti.

p.s. a qualsiasi tua risposta futura diversa da "ok ho detto una cazzata" o che porti dei fatti che dimostrino l'infiltrazione della yakuza in OMS, FDA, NHS, nature, cochreane, lancet, più un'altra cinquanatina di riviste mediche oltre agli apparati nazionali di sanità di italia, usa, canada, germania, uk, australia, francia, austria, olanda, belgio, svezia, spagna, norvegia, ecc... la mia risposta sarà il copia incola di questo intervento.
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Lun 15 Apr - 13:40

Rasputin ha scritto:
loonar ha scritto:Be' ma l'agopuntura la fanno gli anestesisti negli ambulatori dei centri anti-dolore negli ospedali. Ma da anni! Che c'è da discutere?
Rasputin non lo sapevi?

Nullla, se non che - fino a prova contraria - almeno in tutti i casi che ho potuto verificare è un trattamento sintomatico, qusti sempre analgesico, e non curativo.

Per intenderci, può far passare il mal di denti ed i dolori al ginocchio, ma non cura gli ascessi né i menischi strappati. Ci siamo?
E chi l'ha mai detto che cura la causa? Tanto più che in alcuni casi (cefalee) la causa manco si conosce bene! Ci mancherebbe che una terapia sintomatica si trasformi in causale. Tieni conto che in PS la terapia antalgica è quasi esclusivamente sintomatica.
Un dottore (che ora si è trasferito) che sapeva fare l'agopuntura, spesso con degli aghi da insulina infilati nello spazio fra le sopraciglia risolveva delle cefalee che non passavano con il tramadolo (un derivato oppioide)!

Per quanto riguarda l'agopuntura posso concludere che tutto l'apparato mitico/esplicativo che sta alla sua base non è per nulla scientifico, per cui bisognerebbe lavorarci su con esperimenti scientifici che ci spieghino il perchè della sua efficacia. Ma che come analgesia sia efficace non c'è nulla da discutere.

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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da mix il Lun 15 Apr - 13:47

jessica ha scritto:visto che a mix interessavano gli studi antropologici, ecco qui un altro bel caso per lui di come funziona il cervello di certa gente (anche se più di cervello mi vien da dire che per continuare questa discussione tu stia usando il culo...)
grazie per i link forniti, jessica.

leggendolo come fatto riportato, non avrei creduto possibile che qualcuno se ne fosse uscito, per davvero, con l'affermazione che la testa resta attaccata al collo grazie alla forza di gravità.
hysterical hysterical hysterical
è vero che supera solo di poco tante altre fregnacce che ho letto su questo forum nel corso del tempo, non ne mancano certamente.
chi lo pensa (testa attaccata per gravità) non dovrebbe mai fare una risonanza magnetica, o una TAC.
perchè quando si stende ed appoggia la testa (vuota) sul tavolo trasportatore della macchina, la testa viene in contatto con una massa gravitazionale un centinaio di volte superiore a quella del corpo e quindi dovrebbe restare attaccata alla macchina, dopo e non al corpo. carneval hihihihih
nessun grosso problema pratico: l'operatore radiologico deve solo prendere la testa e metterla al suo giusto posto. il basket dei rifiuti. carneval hihihihih


ora però l'interesse antropologico è orientato più verso i fans di Raspy: come è possibile prendere un soggetto così come idolo? quali meccanismi inconsci intervengono in una scelta così assurda?
nel complesso, un'interessante situazione da analizzare.
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Re: Indice delle credenze proibite

Messaggio Da loonar il Lun 15 Apr - 14:28

mix ha scritto:
ora però l'interesse antropologico è orientato più verso i fans di Raspy: come è possibile prendere un soggetto così come idolo? quali meccanismi inconsci intervengono in una scelta così assurda?
nel complesso, un'interessante situazione da analizzare.

Semplice: Rasputin è un idolo per noi solo nel tuo personalissimo mondo visto attraverso le lenti deformanti dell'avatarfilia/personafobia.
Nella realtà con Rasputin c'è un rapporto di cordiale comunanza di idee (molte, non tutte) e di modi di vedere la vita, che me lo fanno sentire vicino come persona. Nessun idolo. Per cui quando dice cose che non condivido non mi crea nessun problema farglielo presente. Come sto facendo qua e nel thread sulle donne e sui figli naturali e no.

(chissà se l'antropologo conosce la lingua della nostra tribù e avrà capito?)

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